Sunday, August 24, 2008

Change of Heart

I had some interesting experiences walking for Proposition 8 yesterday. Two of these incidents were almost identical, so I wanted to share them with you. I came upon a lady who was raking her yard. I started talking to her and told her I was with the "Yes on Proposition 8 campaign". I asked if she knew what it was. She saiad, "Oh, I'm not going to vote.". I said, "You aren't going to vote on Prop. 8?". She said, "I don't even want to get in to that.". I offered her some information and pointed out the website, "". Suddenly she thanked me for walking for this cause. I thanked her for her time and started to walk away when I realized I had forgotten to ask her if she knew her spouse's view on this. I asked, "How do you think your husband would vote on this?". She said, "Oh yes, he is definitely for it! We support it!". I think sometimes people are afraid to learn, but once they open their mind, the fear leaves and they feel more comfortable.

I went to another house that wasn't on my registered voter list, but I felt I should stop anyway, and at least leave some information. A man answered the door and I explained what I was doing, and what Prop. 8 is about, and asked if he had thought about how he would vote on the issue. He said, "I don't know, I really haven't studied it, I'm pretty undecided.". We talked for a minute, and I said, "Well one good thing about if this proposition passes is that it will send a message to the judges that the vote of the people does count. He followed me outside because he was going to his garage. I started to leave when once again I remembered to ask how he thought his spouse would vote. He said, "Oh, she would definitely support this! We are behind this all the way!". He then agreed to put a yard sign in his yard.

What I learned from this experience is that grass roots movements really do work, and that sometimes people who are undecided just need to talk it out to help them make up their mind. I was really nervous about going because I was afraid of opposition that I would get, but most people were very nice and polite. I really feel that going out and talking to people is the best way to get this passed.

One negative experience. I hate to end on a bad note, but maybe you will at least get a chuckle. A young man (about 18) came to the door and I explained what I was doing. After we talked for a minute he said, "Wait, so you are supporting only marriage between a man and a woman?". I said yes. He said, "I wouldn't be able to support that and neither would my parents." I said, "Okay, thanks for your time." and walked away. But as I walked away I heard his mother ranting, "Why don't we just cancel marriage all together? Marriage between men and women, dogs and cats...." Oh yea..that's smart....


Chino Blanco said...

According to Frank Schubert, 'Yes on 8' campaign manager, the mobilization of LDS (Mormon) volunteers could save his campaign up to $26 million in costs related to micro-targeting persuadable voters.

Micro-Targeting Mormons

So much for campaign finance rules.

Delirious said...

I give no credence to arguments that contain anti=Mormon sentiment. I know the aim of such isn't to make a point, it is to try to discourage those who are part of the grass roots movement. What it all comes down to is, those who are opposed to Prop 8 know that the grass roots movement is a threat. They will use whatever means necessary to try to thwart their efforts. I willingly do this as a volunteer, not as a Mormon. I believe in this cause that will affect generations to come. The disintegration of the family, and the distintegration of our moral values can destroy our society all together. I welcome all comments to my blog, but frankly, I ignore those that are simply following an anti-Mormon agenda.

Looney said...

Apparently chino blanco believes that only those who are anti-morality, pro-depravity are allowed to engage in grass roots movements, receive government funds, and be bankrolled by the filthy rich. Where can I get a "Yes on 8" sign?

Patrick Meighan said...

If you want to be bigoted in your own church, that's fine. A generation ago, many churches (including yours) opposed miscegenation based on scripture, and that was fine too.

Where it stops being fine is when you start amending the state's constitution to codify your bigotry into enduring state law. That's why I'm opposing Prop 8, and doing all that I can to make sure that, in November, California stands for tolerance and equality, instead of discrimination and hate.

Someday we'll look back on your work to prevent marriage between loving, monogamous Californians of the same gender the way we currently look on those who worked to prevent marriage between loving, monogamous Californians of different races. I fear you'll be no prouder of your current stance than yesterday's racists are of their former stance. I urge you to save yourself that shame and stand with your fellow Californians for tolerance and love.

FWIW, I'm a regular church goer (I'm a Unitarian Universalist) and a heterosexual, and a husband, and a father of a 3-year-old daughter. My marriage and my family have not been in any way damaged by the fact that other Californians who are different from us can marry the person they love. And I want to be sure that my daughter will someday be able to marry the person she loves (and who loves her) regardless of his or her gender.

Patrick Meighan
Culver City, CA

Looney said...

Patrick, I think you are badly confused. The church exists only in Christ, and Unitarians are everything religious except for Christ. Therefore, it is impossible for there to be a "Unitarian Church". This is an oxymoron.

Delirious said...

You can follow this link to sign up for a yard sign, or go to and surf around for other information. :)

Delirious said...

It's interesting how those with traditional, Bible based beliefs are now considered to be guilty of "thought crimes". What's interesting to me is to see how many in our society have been brainwashed by the gay/lesbian agenda to believe that if they don't support this, then they are "hate mongers". In reality, I don't hate gays or lesbians. But the institution of marriage from the beginning of time is one which was ordained and instituted by God. If you open this legal door to allow same sex marriage, you will open a flood gate of social ills that will not be able to be repaired. Just talk to those who live in states where this has already been legalized...they have seen the damage first hand

Grimtooth said...

Interresting situation out there. Where as i do think each church should have its own yes or no decision on gay marriage. The state itself supposedly being free of religious influence (other then thru votes)should be able to have a joining ceramony (wedding).
I say this mostly cause although i dont agree with that lifestyle its not my place to say no or yes. Considering marriage or joining is seen as a way to share health coverage, a way to leave things to others as in inheratances, i can easily see a non religious aspect involved in wanting to be married. Now i do find it insane that the state is trying to overturn a vote that has from my understanding failed once or twice before.
Where as i dont care about gay marriage , i do think its wrong to over turn a vote taken that passes one way or the other. It would be hard for me to take a position on this issue.

Looney said...

Grimtooth, there are some other things to note. First, here in California all of the benefits of marriage are available to GLBTs through the domestic partnership legislation. There are no additional governmental benefits conferred through GLBT marriage, although it does affect perhaps a few dozen private companies that recognize marriage, but don't provide domestic partnerships benefits and happen to have one of the very rare married GLBTs as an employee.

As you can see from Patrick's comments, gay marriage is something he takes seriously for religious reasons, although he himself isn't gay. The GLBT community also doesn't form relationships like married couples, so their reasons for wanting gay marriage - if any - are usually just to be a pain to everyone else. If you poke around enough, you will find that there are various sects who have GLBT marriage as doctrines in their religion, such as Obama's United Church of Christ and Patrick's Unitarians. In California, the result is that only GLBT activist groups are permitted in public schools to teach morality. It is a bit like putting Hugh Hefner in charge of the moral teaching in the schools, although Hugh Hefner has his limits, and the GLBTs don't.

Thus, the California Supreme Court's decision can only be described as religiously motivated and establishing certain conflicting doctrines of fringe religious sects as being superior to the religious practices of the vast majority of civilization.

Delirious said...

Another aspect that I believe is that the GLBT wants marriage not for the institution itself, but to "normalize" homosexual relationships. They dont' care about the marriage itself as about being treated as normal. But this type of relationship isn't normal, and isn't what nature, and God intended. Some say that God made them that way. God created man, but aberrations that occur are made by nature...they happen because we are mortal, not perfect beings. We all get sick, not because God made us sick, but because our mortality makes us open to disease. Some have genetic flaws, not because God wanted to make them that way, punish them, but because genetic flaws happen to humanity as part of this mortal process. Homosexuality isn't the norm, and science doesn't back up that it is a genetic abnormality that forces people to choose this lifestyle. It's a choice, not a genetic condition.

Grim, I understand your point of view. Most non-religious people share it. But the problem comes when you open this legal door. This will change the way our children are taught in schools. This actually takes away my religious rights. If this passes, my children MUST be taught this alternate lifestyle in school, and must be taught it is normal, even though I don't want them exposed to it. In addition, it opens the legal door for a myriad of other non-traditional marriages.

Native Minnow said...

Delirious, I normally don't like to get involved in debates like this on family members' blogs, but you're wrong in your statement that science doesn't suggest that homosexuality is a genetic condition. There is actually quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. That's not to say it is in every single person's case, because for some it is a choice, but there are definitely some homosexuals who are "born that way".

Delirious said...

Native Minnow,
Actually, I did make that point. I agreed that a small percentage could be born that way, but not the majority, as they claim. I didn't say that no one was born that way. But I just think too many ride that excuse.

Chino Blanco said...

I appreciate the effort to engage my comments. Thanks for having me, I know I'm a guest and do try to be civil. That said ...

Just a heads up: Mike Huckabee recently gave an interview in which he holds Mitt Romney responsible for implementing gay marriage in Massachusetts.


Welcome to the coalition.

I wish that more rank and file members of the LDS (Mormon) church would realize: the anti-gay coalition they've joined in California is one that includes folks who - given the chance - would vote their church out of existence.

Folks like Mike Huckabee and his Evangelical buddies.

Delirious said...

Most born agains think Mormons aren't Christian. They don't really understand what we believe. We are used to that. I don't care if the entire athiest population works with us on this issue though because it isn't about whether or not we agree on our religions, it's about working together to protect our democratic rights.
Interestingly enough, my neighbor asked me why the GLBT wants marriage. She said, "They can live together, they can even have cohabitation laws to insure their legal rights as a couple. Why are they so insistent on marriage?" She said that she and her husband lived together many years before they married. She said in their minds they were already married. They only finally did get married because of religious ideals, and because of social pressure. If we look at the GLBT, do they think that marrying will make us think better of their lifestyle and accept them socially? Because frankly, that won't make me be any more accepting of their lifestyle. Do they feel that God will be upset at them for living together without getting married? Because the Bible is very clear that homosexual relations aren't approved by God. I don't know the answer to her question, I only know that marriage is our word, and our institution. If they want something like that..let them come up with their own word, their own ceremony, their own institution.